"...it's going to take the kind of massacre that kills lots of children...."
Its easy to believe that the anti-gun lobby is driven by an altruistic belief that firearms in the hands of responsible citizens can only be a bad thing, and the mantra of "if it only saves one life..." may be a reasonable, even laudable goal for a safe society, whether it would be here in Canada or south of the border in the U.S. It might be a reasonable belief if it were true, but it's not.
The anti-gun lobby has a public and private agenda that is not about safety for citizens, its about ideology, and always has been. Proper analysis of statistics from all sources do not support a significant public health risk greater than most other things, from the ownership of firearms by citizens. In fact, statistics indicate that firearms ownership by responsible people reduces risk from crime.
Please note in the following recent article (editorialized in its entirety in order to preserve the context), the statements of one Bryan Jones (highlighted below), and this chilling, revealing, quote:
Jones' comment brings to mind the bizarre, and indeed, psycho-pathologic, antics of the anti-abortion extremists like James Kopp, convicted of murdering, and attempting to murder, doctors alleged to have performed abortions, Islamic jihadists, and others who fundamentally appear to believe in and in some cases, cause to occur, horrific crimes against humanity in order to justify or advance their ideology.
People like Jones are the people who need to be watched in society, not ordinary law abiding citizens who happen to own firearms. The ordinary responsible gun owner wouldn't even contemplate a mass murder to drive home an ideological point. Bryan Jones' comments, however, indicate that such an event may well be on his wishlist, as a means to justify an end.
That thought, and the knowledge that there are many more like him out there, is what is truly scary. As a society, we've been worrying about the wrong people...
Despite shootings, gun control unlikely, lawmakers reluctant to pass measures
Seattle Post-Intelligencer January 5, 2007
By MELISSA SANTOS
P-I REPORTER
OLYMPIA -- Heading into the 2007 Legislature, leading lawmakers are reluctant to pass new gun-control measures despite last year's mass killing on Capitol Hill, a downtown office shooting and this week's gun slaying of a Tacoma high school student.
Insiders and experts say the gun lobby's influence may be too strong, politicians' courage too weak and the number of gun victims still too low to prompt action.
In Seattle, where aggravated assaults with guns rose 19 percent last year, Mayor Greg Nickels and police Chief Gil Kerlikowske are urging legislators to pass bills regulating the sale and storage of guns.
But Democrats in the House and the Senate say their priorities lie elsewhere -- increasing funding for education and health care.
And Senate Majority Leader Lisa Brown, D-Spokane, said she's uncertain a push for tougher gun regulations would do much good.
"There are a lot of things to consider," Brown said. "We still have open borders. Absent federal legislation ... people can still walk right across the border and buy guns in Idaho."
House Speaker Frank Chopp, D-Seattle, represents the district where Kyle Huff gunned down six people at a Capitol Hill house party in March and borders the downtown area where six people were shot -- one woman fatally -- at the Jewish Federation four months later. He said the Democratic caucus has been focused on other issues and has yet to discuss proposed gun control measures.
On Thursday Chopp said he would meet with Kerlikowske to discuss the issue and review relevant proposals, but he gave no indication that he would try to push through a new law.
A bill aiming to close a so-called loophole that allows people to buy firearms at gun shows without a background check was filed last month. That measure has yet to be discussed in depth, he said Wednesday.
"I haven't had time to poll our members in terms of that particular proposal," Chopp said.
Incoming state Sen. Ed Murray, D-Seattle, said it's unlikely bills related to gun control will go far this legislative session.
"I think the core Democratic constituents are going to be pleased with a lot of stuff we do this session, but I don't think they'll be very pleased with what we do with gun control, which is not very likely to be much," he said.
Nationally, gun rights have long been a wedge issue for Democrats and Republicans, with gun control being primarily an issue of the left.
But in Washington, Democrats have not embraced the cause.
The national group the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence gave Washington state a D+ rating for gun control legislation.
Natalie Reber, executive director of Washington CeaseFire, said Washington got a subpar grade "because it hasn't passed sensible gun laws to protect our children and families, such as mandatory background checks on all gun purchases.
"Our elected officials had the opportunity (last) session to pass common-sense gun legislation. Instead they once again allowed the gun lobby to undermine any possibility of passing legislation supported by voters that would help keep guns out of the hands of criminals, terrorists and other prohibited purchasers."
Despite this year's Democratic majority in both chambers, chances for gun control legislation are slim.
The gun show bill's strongest supporters anticipate opposition in the House and the Senate.
"Even though we have a large Democratic majority, I believe it is an issue that will still have a lot of challenges in the Legislature," said Sen. Jeanne Kohl-Welles, D-Seattle, who sponsored last year's failed bill in the Senate.
Senate Minority Leader Mike Hewitt, R-Walla Walla, said he is concerned about the rise in violent crime in King County but feels that it is unfair to punish all gun owners for the mistakes of a few.
"What's been happening is unfortunate," Hewitt said. "A lot of it has to do with our social attitudes today. The problem starts with people, not guns."
Dave Workman, a senior editor of Gun Week, a publication owned by the Second Amendment Foundation, said bills to regulate gun shows are misguided.
"The real issue about this is that gun shows really are not the source of these firearms. Whether you close this so-called gun show loophole or not, the gun shows have nothing to do with any of the high-profile shootings in Seattle in the last years and those guys know it," Workman said.
In more than a decade of lawmaking in Olympia, Murray, the incoming senator from Seattle, has built a reputation as a champion for underdog issues, such as gay rights. He said that gun control is among the toughest issues for Washington Democrats to advance.
"It would be easier to pass a gay marriage bill down here than it is to pass a gun control bill," he said.
Murray said gun control is explosive because it is misinterpreted as an effort to take guns away from people.
"I don't want to take people's guns away, but there are types of guns people shouldn't have and certain people who shouldn't have guns," he said.
Murray said he would support those legislators who are trying to protect their constituents' rights to own a gun, but not unconditionally.
"They have to support me in trying find a way to address the gun problem that led to the murder of seven people in my district and an attack on the Jewish Federation just blocks from my district," Murray said.
The gun lobby is perhaps the biggest obstacle facing lawmakers who want to address the issue, he said.
Bryan Jones, director of the Center for American Politics and Public Policy at the University of Washington, agreed that the gun lobby is the main reason politicians are unlikely to pass new control laws.
Though the political risk is not nearly as big as it is perceived, fear still prevails, he said.
"Politicians are afraid of the NRA and they are not afraid of the ACLU. It's that simple," Jones said.
That fear may be unwarranted, he said.
"California regulated the hell out of guns -- and they don't get in trouble."
Jones said the National Rifle Association's power is declining, but he thinks Washington politicians are "playing it safe in the sense that: Why kick a sleeping dog that's leaving you alone right now?" he said.
"I hate to say it but it's going to take the kind of massacre that kills lots of children. That's the only way we are going to see progress," Jones said.
"I think it's got to be worse than (Columbine). I mean, you didn't see anything in Colorado" in substantive new gun control laws after 15 people were killed at Columbine High School in 1999.
Sen. Pam Roach, R-Auburn, said Democrats aren't pushing for increased gun control because they don't want to lose the support of rural voters.
"I think Democrats are being much more careful than they used to be," Roach said.
"They want to continue to stay in a majority locally and nationally and will do their best to limit the liberal elements of their caucuses," she said.
Gun control advocates are pushing a bill that would require background checks of all buyers at gun shows and flea markets in Washington state.
P-I reporter Chris McGann contributed to this report. P-I reporter Melissa Santos can be reached at 360-943-8311 or melissasantos@seattlepi.com.
The anti-gun lobby has a public and private agenda that is not about safety for citizens, its about ideology, and always has been. Proper analysis of statistics from all sources do not support a significant public health risk greater than most other things, from the ownership of firearms by citizens. In fact, statistics indicate that firearms ownership by responsible people reduces risk from crime.
Please note in the following recent article (editorialized in its entirety in order to preserve the context), the statements of one Bryan Jones (highlighted below), and this chilling, revealing, quote:
"I hate to say it but it's going to take the kind of massacre that kills lots of children. That's the only way we are going to see progress," Jones said.Columbine was a rare event, a peculiar product of psycho-pathology, related to firearms only by association. Like the Oklahoma City bombing and Dawson College, the over-arching issue is the psycho-pathology, not the weapon used. The fact that such large scale events do not regularly occur, clearly shows that firearms ownership is not the issue. It is, as the article points out, about behavior, not methodology.
"I think it's got to be worse than (Columbine)....
Jones' comment brings to mind the bizarre, and indeed, psycho-pathologic, antics of the anti-abortion extremists like James Kopp, convicted of murdering, and attempting to murder, doctors alleged to have performed abortions, Islamic jihadists, and others who fundamentally appear to believe in and in some cases, cause to occur, horrific crimes against humanity in order to justify or advance their ideology.
People like Jones are the people who need to be watched in society, not ordinary law abiding citizens who happen to own firearms. The ordinary responsible gun owner wouldn't even contemplate a mass murder to drive home an ideological point. Bryan Jones' comments, however, indicate that such an event may well be on his wishlist, as a means to justify an end.
That thought, and the knowledge that there are many more like him out there, is what is truly scary. As a society, we've been worrying about the wrong people...
Despite shootings, gun control unlikely, lawmakers reluctant to pass measures
Seattle Post-Intelligencer January 5, 2007
By MELISSA SANTOS
P-I REPORTER
OLYMPIA -- Heading into the 2007 Legislature, leading lawmakers are reluctant to pass new gun-control measures despite last year's mass killing on Capitol Hill, a downtown office shooting and this week's gun slaying of a Tacoma high school student.
Insiders and experts say the gun lobby's influence may be too strong, politicians' courage too weak and the number of gun victims still too low to prompt action.
In Seattle, where aggravated assaults with guns rose 19 percent last year, Mayor Greg Nickels and police Chief Gil Kerlikowske are urging legislators to pass bills regulating the sale and storage of guns.
But Democrats in the House and the Senate say their priorities lie elsewhere -- increasing funding for education and health care.
And Senate Majority Leader Lisa Brown, D-Spokane, said she's uncertain a push for tougher gun regulations would do much good.
"There are a lot of things to consider," Brown said. "We still have open borders. Absent federal legislation ... people can still walk right across the border and buy guns in Idaho."
House Speaker Frank Chopp, D-Seattle, represents the district where Kyle Huff gunned down six people at a Capitol Hill house party in March and borders the downtown area where six people were shot -- one woman fatally -- at the Jewish Federation four months later. He said the Democratic caucus has been focused on other issues and has yet to discuss proposed gun control measures.
On Thursday Chopp said he would meet with Kerlikowske to discuss the issue and review relevant proposals, but he gave no indication that he would try to push through a new law.
A bill aiming to close a so-called loophole that allows people to buy firearms at gun shows without a background check was filed last month. That measure has yet to be discussed in depth, he said Wednesday.
"I haven't had time to poll our members in terms of that particular proposal," Chopp said.
Incoming state Sen. Ed Murray, D-Seattle, said it's unlikely bills related to gun control will go far this legislative session.
"I think the core Democratic constituents are going to be pleased with a lot of stuff we do this session, but I don't think they'll be very pleased with what we do with gun control, which is not very likely to be much," he said.
Nationally, gun rights have long been a wedge issue for Democrats and Republicans, with gun control being primarily an issue of the left.
But in Washington, Democrats have not embraced the cause.
The national group the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence gave Washington state a D+ rating for gun control legislation.
Natalie Reber, executive director of Washington CeaseFire, said Washington got a subpar grade "because it hasn't passed sensible gun laws to protect our children and families, such as mandatory background checks on all gun purchases.
"Our elected officials had the opportunity (last) session to pass common-sense gun legislation. Instead they once again allowed the gun lobby to undermine any possibility of passing legislation supported by voters that would help keep guns out of the hands of criminals, terrorists and other prohibited purchasers."
Despite this year's Democratic majority in both chambers, chances for gun control legislation are slim.
The gun show bill's strongest supporters anticipate opposition in the House and the Senate.
"Even though we have a large Democratic majority, I believe it is an issue that will still have a lot of challenges in the Legislature," said Sen. Jeanne Kohl-Welles, D-Seattle, who sponsored last year's failed bill in the Senate.
Senate Minority Leader Mike Hewitt, R-Walla Walla, said he is concerned about the rise in violent crime in King County but feels that it is unfair to punish all gun owners for the mistakes of a few.
"What's been happening is unfortunate," Hewitt said. "A lot of it has to do with our social attitudes today. The problem starts with people, not guns."
Dave Workman, a senior editor of Gun Week, a publication owned by the Second Amendment Foundation, said bills to regulate gun shows are misguided.
"The real issue about this is that gun shows really are not the source of these firearms. Whether you close this so-called gun show loophole or not, the gun shows have nothing to do with any of the high-profile shootings in Seattle in the last years and those guys know it," Workman said.
In more than a decade of lawmaking in Olympia, Murray, the incoming senator from Seattle, has built a reputation as a champion for underdog issues, such as gay rights. He said that gun control is among the toughest issues for Washington Democrats to advance.
"It would be easier to pass a gay marriage bill down here than it is to pass a gun control bill," he said.
Murray said gun control is explosive because it is misinterpreted as an effort to take guns away from people.
"I don't want to take people's guns away, but there are types of guns people shouldn't have and certain people who shouldn't have guns," he said.
Murray said he would support those legislators who are trying to protect their constituents' rights to own a gun, but not unconditionally.
"They have to support me in trying find a way to address the gun problem that led to the murder of seven people in my district and an attack on the Jewish Federation just blocks from my district," Murray said.
The gun lobby is perhaps the biggest obstacle facing lawmakers who want to address the issue, he said.
Bryan Jones, director of the Center for American Politics and Public Policy at the University of Washington, agreed that the gun lobby is the main reason politicians are unlikely to pass new control laws.
Though the political risk is not nearly as big as it is perceived, fear still prevails, he said.
"Politicians are afraid of the NRA and they are not afraid of the ACLU. It's that simple," Jones said.
That fear may be unwarranted, he said.
"California regulated the hell out of guns -- and they don't get in trouble."
Jones said the National Rifle Association's power is declining, but he thinks Washington politicians are "playing it safe in the sense that: Why kick a sleeping dog that's leaving you alone right now?" he said.
"I hate to say it but it's going to take the kind of massacre that kills lots of children. That's the only way we are going to see progress," Jones said.
"I think it's got to be worse than (Columbine). I mean, you didn't see anything in Colorado" in substantive new gun control laws after 15 people were killed at Columbine High School in 1999.
Sen. Pam Roach, R-Auburn, said Democrats aren't pushing for increased gun control because they don't want to lose the support of rural voters.
"I think Democrats are being much more careful than they used to be," Roach said.
"They want to continue to stay in a majority locally and nationally and will do their best to limit the liberal elements of their caucuses," she said.
Gun control advocates are pushing a bill that would require background checks of all buyers at gun shows and flea markets in Washington state.
P-I reporter Chris McGann contributed to this report. P-I reporter Melissa Santos can be reached at 360-943-8311 or melissasantos@seattlepi.com.
posted by Stephen at 1:49 AM
4 Comments:
Is that right? The anti gun lobby is hoping for more massacres? How about this. How about the right to PROTECT ourselves, Dolts.
Bill Murphy
I can understand the type of shock rhetoric the lad is reaching for with his rather sophmoric writings but no, that will not produce his desired results , not at all. Canadians are wise enough to understand that it is Jamaicans in Toronto belonging to Gangs like they did back in Kingston and Spanish Town and the guns those Jamaicans import, same as the IRA did, another band of useless wastes of skin. Unless Jamaicans who aren't supposed to be here, unless Jamaicans who are male criminal and unemployed, and especially Jamaicans who have formed or belong to gangs in Toronto are sent home once...then if they return jailed in Archambault for a minimum 10 years, we will continue to see a culture grow and prosper. All around these Jamaicans crime entities are forming...Russian, Italian, Tamils probably, and the absolute gutter Arabs stuttering around in their 12th century DNA arrested development. You, Liberals, destroyed the hope for peace and security in my land. Now, you are going to pay the piper. Because your precious Human Rights will not allow the antibiotics to be applied to the virus, the germs that fester and kill15 year olds on the streets of Toronto. Gated communities are already here, for those who can afford them.
Outlaw guns and the only folks who will have them are criminals and the government. Of course, the only way to pacify the population and herald in a socialist utopia will be to disarm the citizenry.... Hmm...
The founding fathers south of the border were indeed the visionaries of their day - the 2nd amendment was put in place to ensure the people were never again subjected to the rule of a despot. The first rule of retaining power is to ensure it cannot be removed by others - hence the unarming of the local populace. By entrenching the right to keep & bear arms in the constitution the founders made certain that the people could & would rise up to throw out their dictators if required, and protect their property and themselves when threatened. This common logic is no doubt much too simple & understandable to be acceptable to the left - who's mantra of "the state will protect you" rings increasingly hollow with each passing tradgedy.
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